We hope that you are keeping safe and well during this time! Episode 41 of the podcast is now live and available for you all to listen to on all major podcasting platforms, the website (link in bio) and YouTube. In this episode we’ve been inspired by BBC Radio 4’s “Desert Island Discs” so we are discussing songs that are meaningful to us, that remind us of certain people or certain times of life, we discuss what book (other than the bible and the entire works of Shakespeare) we’d take and what luxury item we’d take with us were we to find ourselves marooned on a desert island. We also extend the conversation to discuss which people we’d like to invite to a dinner party from any time in history, what period of time we’d travel if we could and what we think an outside alien would find were it to come to earth; what would it think about the state of humankind in the 21st century?
We hope that you enjoy the episode! As always, we’d love to hear from you. Get in touch and let us know what songs, books, luxury items you’d take to a desert island, who you’d invite to a dinner party and what you think an alien would make of the state of humankind in the 21st century. You can get in touch with us by email email@example.com, leave us a comment or send a direct message on Facebook or Instagram and don forget to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel!
Thanks, everyone, take care! 🙂✌🏼
Hello, hello, everyone, and welcome to episode number forty, one of the Tomescu and You podcast. Stu, how are you doing? Wonderful.
Welcome. Welcome, Housekeeping’s. Yeah, OK, good with me now. Thank you. How’s things in Canada with lockdown and things like that? I hear things pretty. Yeah, well, we are going into lockdown, number one, and off to depending on how you interpret the rules and how you interpret the other, lockdowns that aren’t really lockdowns that we’ve been we’ve been having. So, yeah, things are a bit all over the place right now.
Like we’re basically in total lockdown, except for some reason retail stores can still stay open at twenty five percent capacity. So 95 percent capacity. Yeah. So people can still go shopping in the mall, but you can’t hang out with any friends inside or outside. So Christmas is canceled this year. So just to cancel the show.
So I was going to ask you about Christmas because actually there’s a lot of rules knocking about, about coronavirus. I think, I think we’ve just come out of a second, but I can’t be sure. And again, retail prices are OK to be open and then you can only go to the pub if you’re having a meal. So you can only have a beer if you’re having a meal in our area. And what else is a rule? So no one really knows what the rules are anymore.
But we Christmas isn’t canceled in the U.K. because I think it’s the case that for five days over the Christmas period, you are allowed to have a beer with three of the households. I think that’s what’s happening. So in a way, that’s kind of nice because I I’m looking forward to seeing families after all this time. Well, that’s a shame. It won’t be the same.
That sounds like the 10 second rule for germs. Sounds good. Sounds good. I don’t think that’s quite that way. Coronavirus doesn’t give Christmas a break and five days isn’t a quarantine period. So what? Well, I don’t know, but I never you know, I think that maybe the government felt pressure to get things sorted by Christmas and obviously there is news of and vaccines and things like that, which is a good thing, which is which is great.
And. Oh, yeah. So I think they kind of have to kind of have to do this politically, maybe as people, because canceling Christmas in the U.K. wouldn’t have gone down.
Well, it hasn’t gotten better, and that’s for sure. So we’re in lockdown now for four weeks. So Christmas is definitely cancelled. mid-January will be looking to revise the rules again, because Alberta is, I think on a per capita basis, Alberta is the third worst. If it was a country, the third worst in the world at the moment for coronavirus cases are really. My thing about Alberta is leading the charge. Oh, yeah, we are breaking it, right?
Well, I kind of I kind of I’m a bit surprised by that actually, because Albir is quite a big problem and it’s quite sparsely populated.
And so apart from like Calgary and Edmonton, which is in Calgary and Edmonton, what I mean, not that bad, but much better, to be honest. But yeah, no, there was, you know, the whole anti mosque rallies. Thousands of people turned up two weeks ago, a few even travel really Canmore to to continue protesting. Yeah, we are very much anti mosque anti vaccine and I’ll be out of here right now so. Yeah, times I have just been staying home, to be honest.
Yeah, yeah, because I’ve seen I’ve seen a lot of people like, oh, this boxing sound rushed through and things like that. And it’s like, no, it’s about all the necessary conditions that just because because of everything’s been sped up, the process has been sped up, it’s been out, all the money thrown at it. So it’s gone through all the necessary procedures that it needs to go through. It’s just happened in a much quicker time frame.
Yes, lockdown is going to be quite interesting, that’s for sure, I think. I know a lot of people struggled in the first lockdown, particularly back in March and April, but what I did like about that period was that there was a sense that we were all in it together. You know, celebrities were hosting free events and, you know, movies were being shown online for free. And, you know, every every gym had online workout courses and stuff.
And I especially find it very hard looking back at Australia, particularly to say that Australia is literally living a life like normal right now. Everything is really the way it was. You know, they had a rugby match not a couple of weeks ago, 56000 spectators in the stands. Really? Yeah. So. Well, to think like that’s what life is back to you at home. And, you know, we’re in our extended lockdown in and out of here.
Yeah, it’s quite a difference of opinion, difference of experience. So I think mentally, this one’s going to be a lot more of a challenge with people just just being over, you know, so in that spirit of, you know, trying to keep things alive and happy and healthy with us all, obviously keeping in touch with close friends and doing things like this podcast. And today is going to be more of a lot of fun because let’s have a bit of fun with that.
Yeah. Yeah, we thought we’d leave capitalism criticisms by a little bit in this one, as it’s this Christmas, we might be a little bit a little bit more light hearted, I guess. So I just I like to say, fuck capitalism now get over there is just about like just just just casually and.
Well, so I was listening to the radio the other day whilst making food and thinking just so consciously about what to do for what would make a good podcast episode. It was a bit more lighthearted and then I. Yeah, exactly.
And I had I was switching free radio stations and then Radio four came on classic on Desert Island Discs, and I was like, oh, those island discs might be a good or a desert island disc type thing might be good. And so for those of you who don’t know Desert Island, this is a BBC radio show. It’s a British institution. And that has been going on since probably around the time of the Second World War or something like that.
I think I think it’s not in houses, not in the 1940s or something. And what happens is that it starts with some lovely, tranquil music and the sounds of waves, the ebb and flow of waves crashing on the beach. No, I’m not. I’m going to caveat that at the I’m saying everything that I talk about now is just going to be no singing. And so and so anyway, they buy a car. Yeah.
They invite a castaway on, which is some sort of celebrity or person of renown. And those people are tasked to pick eight songs about the importance of them or remind them of certain songs that live for songs that they like. And they also pick a book as well. I would take with them on the luxury item to accompany them to the desert island. So if I could read through something like that, maybe throw in a couple of our other extra questions that we feel like I’m certain maybe how do you feel about.
Yeah, this is a it’s a fairly improvised episode where we evaluate some of these questions close to the test. The only one you’re really told me about is inviting people to dinner, which obviously is a question. Of course, I I’m excited to say these are the questions they’ve got and I write music. So if it was music, a big part, a big part of your life to start with. Yeah, I think that is I have I do have certain songs that remind me of people or certain times in life, and I think it’s important to me just generally, because I have it on old time, like in the shower doing work.
I’m always listening to the music that I listen to, like, really wide as well. As I know, if you say what your taste in music, things like that, it’s super, super wide. Like I like a bit of everything, really, which is great. So, yeah, I think it’s important. What about you?
I have music going pretty much all day, every day. I like working the music. I listen to music when I work out. I listen to music when I run. I used to fall asleep to music back in high school and university, somehow that was healthy, but now listen to rain sounds and rain forest down to that, certainly much healthier. But honestly, Spotify was possibly the greatest invention that’s ever come along in my lifetime. Because, you see, that kid started when I first came out.
Here we go. Here we go. Back in my day when I first came out, were you the kid that, like, had the playlist organized? You would like download album artwork on Google and upload like for you that organized music kid when you were growing up. Now, back in my day, I used to I used to tape songs off the road with a guy, so that’s how old I am and stuff to try click it before the adverts go out or whatever.
But if you didn’t get it, you like an advert in that shit because you didn’t know what that was. But yeah, I did like you were annoyed that the others were so so that was me. But no, I’ve never been like super prepared. I know I will be always the one with the playlist. Yeah. I’m pretty sure he’s got a playlist that you can follow on.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, like, I got into radio channels that we had access to growing up as a kid like that, and now both AM radio channels. So most of it was static. If you got like I just remember going to boarding school and getting FM channels for the very first time that like, blew my mind to just how much better FM channels or seafoam or something. They just played like the hottest one hundred. All the pop songs like that was what my childhood later childhood I guess was on.
So I was never going to get it all. I remember at boarding school I had like a it was like a CD player and radio built into an alarm clock. And I thought I was going, Yeah, you probably were in cool because of my my choice of days wasn’t exactly like that.
Great. It was mainly like I call the Aussie Aussie kids out there. Sorry, fresh. I loved it, like just the top 10 songs of every season came at four times a year and yeah, we have not yet married. Not so good. I think that was like maybe like Westlife for some reason.
And I feel like Kasey Chambers was I had a few of her yesterday. So for some reason I know the words like car keys and brick walls. You know that song, Hilary Duff is amazing. I know that I didn’t choose the exact age, but they were the songs on of them say they say, yeah, I know like every single word to the songs of my teenage years. And then I don’t know any lyrics to any song since about 2010.
Interesting. So do you think Spotify is revolutionized the way you used to having someone else curate playlists that I can just enjoy? Perfect. Spotify idea the best thing ever invented. Yeah, now I do a after discovering because you’re going to these places and you just discovered you are, which is great and I feel like that’s hard to do without that kind of without that kind of thing. Yeah. So, yeah, as good as I always, although I don’t have the paid version but I am blessed.
Yeah. I have my other version where every other I would give up. If I just try Netflix and Spotify I would give up Netflix I think. Yeah, Spotify premium to me is I yeah, it’s like it’s like Spotify Redcap is quite funny every year for some reason. It’s always like the most random things that come up as the most played throughout the year. Yeah, the ones that you don’t think that have been like superimportant, but clearly out like ADESA, one of their songs was my top played song of 2020.
Oh, Tony, Tony. I don’t remember the last time I listened to that song, I have a feeling maybe I had, like, clicked it at one point and fallen asleep and it was just on loop with, like, my speaker turned all the way down. So that’s the only explanation is. I don’t listen very much, but I don’t know, maybe I did like maybe I look at number one, I’ve just blanked all those memories and I was actually listening to all these great pop songs.
So what about your your taste in music? That is it. Why does it value. Oh yeah. Yeah. My um I like songs on Spotify is all over the shop and I guess I guess your moods too. Like you can always tell my mood at the time that I added all these songs to my playlist as you scroll down through. Oh it was into like actually country music this week. And then he was into like old school and excess Australian music for some reason.
And then he came on. There’s like Hilltoppers down the bottom there and then there’s a whole bunch of pop songs in the middle. And obviously I listen to the radio at one point because and that’s some of the top five songs. Yeah. Yeah. Oh that’s great. I kind of the same as me then. Do you have any songs that stick out to you that are important to you or remind you of people or not. That question is that is a very tough question.
Very, very big. So I think that stands out really to me right now is reminding me of people and experiences was actually the desperate video song that we played all night when Erica. And while we went to war is back on Reegan. Yeah, it’s a good one. Every time I hear that song, I just got so happy because it’s a good memory. But other than that, I don’t really have other songs that, like stand out as being that important to me.
Behind Blue Eyes, actually, by Linkin Park. That’s coming back behind the Eyes. That was the song of my high school because I have blue eyes.
I like obviously being there, not being a sad teenager. I just thought, like, oh my God, this little guys is a song about me, you know, as I like as I sing about love and heartache at fame. And I never even spoken to a guy before. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, as we say before, there’s going to be no singing in this episode whatsoever, but we might link in the description to all the songs on YouTube if you watch on YouTube that you can maybe see what we’re talking about if you so wish.
And so a song that I’m going to pick first that reminds me of my childhood and my mom mainly, and because she always made me you, she always used to make me not make me because I probably was just singing it all the time anyway. What she used to, she she still says that was not what I know is I can go the distance by Michael Bolton, which is from the Hercules boom. Everyone was watching. And so and she she talked about like when we used to be in the car with family and I would be in the car singing my and she she tells me about that old song.
And so that’s the day of her. And there’s a good tune as well. So it’s a really good shoot. Just give us a couple of just a couple of lyrics to get it. I think I can go the distance. It’s great, and if you’ve seen the cartoon Hercules, though, which is, you know, which is a brilliant movie. I loved it. It’s on there and it’s it’s just great. And it reminds me of another one that reminds me of my mom actually is home by Chris Daughtry or Daughtry, which is a really good song.
It’s the song that she listened to when she went to Africa and she was away from us for a little while, volunteering and helping out. And it was important to her listening to it. And it’s just that’s a great song that reminds me of her as well. And you’ll never walk alone, there’s another song I’m going to pick, Gerry and the Pacemakers, the version of that. It’s basically Liverpool’s anthem, know when the players go out and stuff like that.
And obviously, that reminds me of my dad’s brother and I go into Anfield, which I haven’t done for a long time, because tickets are just ridiculously expensive. And my dad is always my dad always preferred to watch the matches on telly because he’s in the warm, he’s got beer, he’s got instant replay, which you don’t get asked human things.
That’s why he’s like, this is great. I was like, yeah, the atmosphere is amazing. It is amazing. And and. Yeah, it just it just it’s just it’s just a great tune, and I always like to think of it when in the store and it reminds me of the time that we were in the band and you blog over your head and stuff and there’s like an energy charge in the atmosphere. And everyone in that stand and most of the stadium is fully behind the team.
It’s almost it is almost like like a religion in a way, you know, because we believe in in the same thing.
And nowadays my mom goes, and that’s that’s just Catholic because, know, I go on about I watch and I watch football players get paid. I’m like, oh, no, no. Is that it’s so it’s so divorced from what it was is like the working man’s game when it initially rightfulness.
We started up because the logic and reason it’s become emotion. Yeah. Yeah. It’s because it’s straight up. Yeah. Yeah. I had no choice. Basically I was in that area because like you know, I got given a Liverpool kid one. I didn’t even know what it was, so I didn’t have a choice. Well, it’s fine. It sounds like a religion. It’s those sound like religion doesn’t come. Gladwell also doesn’t an unreal podcast episode on that song, You’ll Never Walk Alone.
Yeah, amazing. Revisionist History is this podcast. It was. I think I’ve listened to four full seasons of it and the last couple of days of my road trip and. That podcasting itself is like one of my top recommendations for anyone, any time wanting to learn things about and just recognizing that things aren’t always the way they seem. And I just love Malcolm Gladwell so well in general. Anyway, he does a podcast on that song and like the history of it and and where it’s coming from and sort of like the impact that one song has had on people.
And that’s why it’s great. It’s a great song. And, you know, it’s full of like togetherness and being part of a team and there’s hope and light and all that sort of stuff. And I know what you do need sometimes to be a little boy because I’m just not in the league. Yeah. And so that’s that’s still the one. And I’d also pick hey, you buy Pink Floyd is this one that’s got some great lyrics in it, you know.
It reminds me of being in Canada, actually, the Indigenous Solutions to Environmental Problems conference to talk about on the podcast. Yeah. And it’s got a lot of. Lyrics that I take a. To mean forms of solidarity, united we stand, divided we fall and all that kind of stuff. Roger Waters was on video link during that conference and spoke about solidarity with the Ecuadorian people who’d been poisoned by Chevron and stuff like that. And with Stephen Donziger, who we’ve talked about on the podcast, who was the lawyer representing the Ecuadorian people and who has been victimized by Chevron and demonized by them and things like that.
So that’s another one that reminds me of being in that room and, you know, feeling like I was in a place full of like minded people who were concerned about the environment, concerned about justice, concerned about. They’re standing up for what’s right, basically. So that’s what one. And then I’ve got two more, so I picked the poem for one of them, actually, so a little bit different song, but will allow it? I think so.
The poem is half cast by Johnny God and it’s an amazing poem. People should listen to it. It’s just so great. So what clearly about race and things like that. So. And it’s just it’s just amazing. And he says things like explain what you mean by the term you costuming that when Czajkowski mixes a block and a wiki is a half symphony and it’s just it’s so good. And I remember studying it at school. It was part of an anthology that we had to study for GCSE English literature.
And it’s literally one of the only poems I could remember from it, because it just was so. Powerful to me, I guess, and so people should check up on the way that he performs is so great, such a the way he delivers it is amazing. And then lastly, just a little bit more. I suppose I’ll pick wicked games by the weekend, which is a bit of a brutal song and was the first song that I heard of his, my sister actually introduced me to his music many years ago, probably about 10 years ago.
So I reckon and that’s the first song I listen to. And since then I’ve seen him twice live. And Tyler and I were supposed to go again this year, but obviously got canceled from next year. That’s something that I do see. And whenever whatever is in the UK and he’s one of those artists where he is like actually an artist, he’s not so manufactured, you know, like, yeah. You know, X Factor and a lot of that there is.
Like, he’s actually going through the grind kind of thing and he actually sounds like how he sounds live or even maybe. So that’s those are the Arctic to save all of their songs. They actually do in Desert Island this. I don’t know what to say because I would also be unreasonable that you said, because that’s my that’s my point, because it reminds me of the trip that we had in Jasper and which was amazing, which was amazing.
And also, it’s just like when you find the perfect song, you bring the experience. Yeah. Yeah. It’s you know, it’s great. We were listening to that song also all living the experience. I like that doesn’t happen. You know, actually, you find the perfect road trip song while on a road trip or holiday song when you go on holiday, you know. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and I know my other song is now a Year by Jumbunna.
So it’s the tune. The tune. So it is Gabriel’s Oboe. I wish that was my little Nonis favorite song and it reminds me of her and she was like the kind of person I really am. And the inventor guy he performs is just got an incredible voice, like so good, so people should check out his music. Well, I thought to save up. I probably saved. I can go the distance, of course, Liverpool. Oh, no, that’s the that’s the other song that’s there.
You’ll never walk alone. It’s tough. I think I’m through. I can go the distance. Yeah, so have you got an important thing, your final answer? OK, lock it in. Oh yeah. Well, it’s also hard to pick music, pick so many, so many songs. It’s a little bit too. I was. Yeah, and I think even just hearing you speak about things like as you bring up things, obviously in my mind’s eye whirring away in the background to just be like, oh, anything like this comes up.
And then this comes up. And I’m thinking, like Jamie Exacta, an ex-girlfriend, introduced me to and I like love his music. And then I think about all the times I listen to, like, Hilltop Hoods and, you know, just like every now and again, like one of our songs was just like hit me closer than I realize it probably at the time. And then I think, like, I’m just like scrolling through my Spotify real quick.
Now I’m thinking back to like, say, oh, my April nation, just being like the pop up song that I used to listen to with my roommate before every single exam. We’d listen to that one as we like walking out the door towards the exam hall. Yeah, um. And then, you know, thinking way back to, like kryptonite by three doors down and just be banging like a kid, and that was just like such a such a big song at the time.
So, yes, it’s weird when you like the very first song I liked on on Spotify was hazy by glass animals, and it’s a song I like never listen to anymore. I guess at the time that was like a song that caught my attention when I first got Spotify. Yeah, definitely. And isn’t that amazing how music, those transport, you know, reminds you of certain things and makes you feel like certain ways and things like that I think is great.
And it is an important part of life.
And if you’re going to cheat with a poem, I’ve got my my like that like instantly brought back like one poem that I haven’t thought about literally in probably like a decade. And that was if by Rudyard Kipling. And as you were talking, like, my mind is like transported straight back to boarding school, that that poem was on a poster like right outside my I mean, we didn’t have doors at that time outside the entrance hall to my room that was like on a person.
I probably read that poem like, you know, hundreds of times over the five years that I live there. And I even chose a tantalizing English class one time. Usually when you analyze something in English class in high school, it ruins it for you forever. But this was like the one thing that stuck with me. And yeah, I think actually I might I might say this poem and try to kind of like find the poster again or something just because it was such an important part of growing up and like reading back through right now, it’s like damn like yeah.
Yeah, that was good. Like I said, I should be reading that and thinking about that more often. Yeah, that’s exactly what I was thinking. It would be, you know, with a half assed John. I got so good. It really is good. I’m so. Moving on next to the next thing we’ve got so far as part of the Desert Island Discs is the book. So you got given the complete works of Shakespeare to take with you and you got given the Bible.
Have you read any of you read the Bible?
This is interesting because you had mentioned briefly that we had to think about a book and. After like going back to all the fiction series and non-fiction series that I write in my time, I was like, you know, what actually would be interesting to take with me is the Bible, because as the most influential book ever. Yeah, most copies sold. I’ve never sat down and read the Bible through and through, I’m actually here at different passages and stuff, you know, in my very brief religious upbringing.
But I thought it’d be it’d be like the one because I was thinking, like, I’d be interesting to bring, you know, some of Plato’s work to Aristotle was like, you know, something that something thought-Provoking that I could think in my own if I was stuck on an island by myself all the time. So maybe the maybe the the Bible is like the one thing that I bring with me. But now that you get to bring it anyway, you get it.
So I can like Shakespeare’s like. Like what. But yeah. Yeah. Well if you got a favorite Shakespeare. Now, see, look, I’m not recommending McBeth was good, except we had to analyze that Penglase pass and as I said, that just like ruins every story for you.
Once you start. Once you start like. Being told the way you should be perceiving something based on the opinion of a one particular teacher at the time, I feel like that. Like when you get told your perception is different to theirs and therefore yours is wrong for some reason. I think that always ruined English class for me as a kid. Yeah. You know, when they like all the all the perception, right? Yeah, and you know, the author wrote Blue Card and because I was feeling melancholic at the time and they wanted to know they might have just liked blue as a color, like just anything that English class, I think, were taught poorly at school, that I just ruined some good stories.
Only Macbeth either. But it is a nice right. OK, so what books writing. What book would you take. Because you’ve got the Bible, you can be free. Yeah. I was trying to think for this question like, what is what was my what is my favorite book I think I’ve ever read? Like, what has had the most impact on me, I think. And I’ve read a lot like I am a serial reader, I guess.
I don’t like to read things twice because I don’t like I don’t like to know where the story’s going to go. The only two books really that I guess I’ve read multiple times on purpose, one is The Magician by Raymonde Feist, which is. Which was like the fantasy book that, like, brought fantasy into. Out of out of the darkness and into just modern day society, the whole Riffel saga is incredible. I’ve read all of the books now and the magician is like the one that also it’s a it’s a nice, big, thick box.
I’d get you busy for a couple of days. And the other one was the power of one. OK. Which I read myself on purpose as a teenager, and then we also had to analyze it for English class as well, and it didn’t ruin it for me even then. And I think there’s a lot of life lessons, I guess you could get from that book and also makes you appreciate the upbringing you have compared to the upbringing of other people throughout history.
Yeah, definitely, that’s good, that’s good, um, I think sapience, yeah, that’s a good on to say. That’s yeah that’s what I like about. Caspian’s, to me, is on the. I just kind of couldn’t put it down. I remember just reading it and really enjoying it and the way the Uvo are already thinks, I was like, whoa, this is this is good. Like, I did find that quite eye opening.
I suppose maybe other people don’t. But it’s just how I perceived that. I was like, whoa, this is all actually just the story and that kind of thing and all the fictions. And so I think that that will be interesting on a desert island. But I also thought. As well, if I had, like the complete works of Shakespeare in the Bible, that maybe I would just take like a photography book by a wildlife photographer of the year or humans of New York or some sort of not geo nature, but just to look through something and kind of like an art thing that really, I guess.
So that would be nice to take as well. So I didn’t so I didn’t know whether to go for. And then it’s like, you know. And. Something like Sipkin or something that was maybe something more creative. Yeah, that’s a lot of fun.
So, yeah, I love in a lighthearted and things like that, although I guess if you’re on a desert island, there’s a lot to look out there.
Yeah, the old boys boarding school part of me wants to say, like the funny hats, you know, like Playboy magazine or something, you know, constructive as a writer.
And if I wanted to like I wanted to sort of like interpret the real slightly differently to I’d probably say that if I could only take one book with me, it would be like a blank workbook or like journal or something, you know. So I need to read something about to write in something to make something. Yeah. Especially if you’ve got if you’ve got a Bible and Shakespeare, think about I think you’d have a lot of thought you’d want to write down and sort of like a.
. And I think. Just just on a lot of time on my hands and just knowing the importance of journaling in my life already, as someone who doesn’t have a whole bunch of spare time right now, I just imagine if I only had spare time, I would have even more thought to think about and go stir crazy if you don’t write some of them down and try to think, well, I think that’s a great answer. I don’t think that I don’t know if anyone does.
And this is obviously the journal I wasn’t sitting down I’ll take about. I’ll have to look into that and say that that’s a good answer. What would you say? Because I suppose they might have put this in in the next category, which is what luxury item would you take? Yeah, I mean, if I couldn’t take take it under the category, then I’d definitely take it under the luxury category. I also thought maybe something like a camera would be a good idea.
You know, like if you just ignore the logistics of actually having some piece of electronics and then not having a laptop to handle the photos or like taking off or whatever, like a camera or something. Yeah. Yeah, some something along those lines, I think would be so a lot of your things would be about record in your experience either?
Yeah, I’d say so. If I even if no one sees it, I think it’s still healthy to record your experience as you go. And that’s not just me trying to embrace the a lifestyle of my generation. I think just for your own sanity, I think just to have a record of the experiences you go through so that you have something to compare back to to say progress or, you know, something. If things are going badly or poorly in your life, at least you can look back to happier times for your own creativity as well, right?
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just to give you something today. Yeah. Some archaeologists could dig that open like hundreds of thousands of years and you’d actually cure it. So yeah, I, I, I put a hammock because I just think comics are great on a beach and I think that one of the comfiest forms of I don’t want to call it furniture, but. I don’t know what else to call it, you know, it reminds me of freedom as well, because I remember being on a hammock in Thailand with a Chengde and I was like, I actually don’t have any worries.
All I got to do with that right now.
That sounds like that sounds like the dream I was. I remember a hammock equals freedom. I also when we had the hammock in the back garden and kind of chew it or not be suspicious.
Yeah, it is. I mean, my only pushback against that is I feel like I could make a hammock. Oh yeah. I have made a hammock before as a little kid. We made my brothers made a hammock at the at the bus stop at our front gate, which is a long way from the house of baling twine as kids because, you know, we grew up on a farm. And what else to farm kids have to do when you’re waiting for the school bus every day.
So we tied together a whole bunch of baling twine and looped it between two trees that we had somewhere to sit. I mean, it wasn’t. Greatly appreciated by our more risk averse parents, but we had fun doing it and did it. Did it work? Did it support your weight?
I mean, it wasn’t a competition, though, not obviously, because everyone who didn’t grow up on a farm is only, you know, half a metre long. So to make it into a hammock, you have to tie quite a lot of knots into quite a lot of rope to get it to go to support the weight of even relatively skinny children. Yeah, you need a lot of cordage. Yes.
So you fancy that you’d be pretty handy at creating, like, your own, you know, lean to or light then or. Yeah.
I’m here to listen to you before I can buy a little angel and then before as well as kids. The hammock as well. I mean. If I was really thinking about the book to bring, I’d probably bring a, you know, like some sort of survival book. Yeah, because I think I’m pretty OK with like like I know the concept of making snares, even though I’ve never, like, specifically made one before. I think I’d be OK with catching animals and building.
Building shelter and roughly getting water and whatever, but there’s always more to learn. Yeah, that’s what. Do you think you’re going to take in like that kind of theory and put it into practice with like kind of bushcraft and stuff like say, oh yeah, yeah, see, because I. I fancy myself as being able to do it, but really in reality, I don’t know if I would be able to do it. You know, making fire is important, but I don’t know how to do that without a lawyer.
So if I was thinking more practically, maybe I would bring, like, some way to make fires a luxury. Yeah. Yeah, I don’t know if I can do the whole you know, that way you rub your hands together and I don’t know if I could do the friction by starting one. Um. And flints, like I’ve never used Flint Plant, I don’t understand the basics of how to use it, but if you don’t bring the plant with you, then you have to like that.
So many things. If you could only bring one thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of my mouth I would bring a hammock for sure. Yeah, it’s great. So this is where we kind of deviate from the classical Desert Island Discs because we’re going to go off on a tangent into our own little house. Christmas is coming up, a little dinner party and we’re going to say who, you know, four or five people or however many people we want really just like keep it keep it intimate.
You know, people not like a house party. Well, who would you invite to a dinner party from any time in history? Um, I think this is a tough question, actually, because there’s so many people, right? Yeah. I mean, my my top three came to me pretty pretty much straight away. But then after the top three, there’s like one hundred people that could possibly fill the next eight positions depending on the mood, I mean, and what I hope to learn.
So my top three, Leonardo Da Vinci, Theodore Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt and Alexander the Great. OK, so why did you pick them three, why did those three come immediately to my mind? I have like a whole page, page of page and a half and I pay for it. So I start with obviously a bit of a history buff, just in general, like I’ve always loved history. And obviously these three people in particular have had such an.
Such a huge impact, I guess, on human history, Leonardo da Vinci, as we all know, is the Italian polymath who is widely considered one of the most obviously talented individuals ever to have lived a, you know, painter, a scientist, inventor interested in astronomy, anatomy, inventing stagecraft, an unbelievably talented painter and sculptor in general. I love the Renaissance period, probably from growing up playing to the Assassin’s Creed games, to be honest.
But I think just to be able to have the chance at sitting down with Leonardo da Vinci to talk about, you know, his unquenchable curiosity and as someone who is feverishly inventive imagination, you know, he was he was so far ahead of his time, which is even more fascinating when you consider how religious and you know how, you know, people still believed in for him as being what affected your health. And here, Leonardo, purely because he was such a talented painter, being given access to cut open bodies, to study the anatomy of people and and just push science so much further.
And then we could ever know. I think it’d be a fascinating discussion to try to understand the mindset of the man that we now consider the prime example of the Renaissance man or ultimate, you know, universal genius. It’s called he’d the ultimate podcast. Yes, that’s for sure. It could be a good start, but yeah, I just I’d love to know what drove his curiosity, how you say motivated and how he stayed so productive, even though he he was bad at finishing things.
He obviously could start so many things. I couldn’t imagine just being inside his mind because he could flicker between so many different topics so quickly and just he had such a or his time, such a deep understanding of so many various subjects of academia. But I also would love to know, like what was that he feared, you know, what what love felt like for him, you know, how did he realize the impact that he would have on the world and have on history at the time?
He was obviously celebrated, you know, kings and important people like amendatory family obviously went out of their way to to make him feel supported for life. He obviously celebrated his genius and made sure that everyone knew about him, but. Did he suffer from the same sort of celebrity status that celebrities do today where, you know. He looks good on the outside, but deep down, he has the same sort of fears that any of the rest of us are in.
I’d also like to talk to him a lot about where he thought the importance of his apprenticeship and mentorship was like. That is definitely a. A practice that we have forgotten to some extent within modern day society, where, you know, you surround yourself with individuals who encourage you and support you to explore various different topics and bring it all together in one sort of like project as it was, even though he was a painter and a sculptor, he had to study anatomy so he could be better at, you know, realistic representations and.
So this lady, Leanna Botulin, writing in 1967 said, because of the multiplicity of interests that spurred him to pursue every field of knowledge, Leonardo can be considered quite rightly to obtain the universal genius par excellence. And with all the disquieting overtones inherent in that term, man is as uncomfortable today. Faced with a genius as he was in the 16th century, five centuries have passed. Yet we still view Leonardo with all. And that’s on the life and times of Leonardo.
I just I just feel like no one else in history has lived quite the same way that he has. Hmm, yeah, that’s good, that’s a good point. Definitely, especially in terms of how many subjects, as you say, that he looked into, uh, it really is quite something. And as you say, that’s not really something that happens too much these days, really.
No, we we specialize so very quickly. And and I mean, maybe for some people it’s quite obvious. I do not like to specialize. I like I like being a journalist, you know, and it goes against every piece of advice that anyone successful gets these days. But I like exploring. Different things like I like, you know, touching on photography and videography and, you know, digital art and illustration, but then I also like to write in journal and I like to be good at different sports and I like different new activities.
And I also was quite good at business and I did accounting. And but now I’m not I’m not doing digital marketing, which is completely different, you know, so. But then I also like science, which is why I’m so heavily involved in science, so. He’s like he’s the he’s the ultimate representation of who I wish I could become. But I feel like no matter. I feel like there’s definitely a certain level of genetics personality look as well that.
Isn’t quite realistic anymore. I guess maybe. Yeah, no, I agree. I do think there are you know, there’s a lot that you can do yourself to do what you want to do or look into what you want to do and things like that. But I don’t think it can be denied that there are external things that you can’t control, which is something I’ve always thought really. And sometimes people would be like, you’re too too much external locus of control.
No, no, no, no. It’s just like is it’s quite obvious that there are things that I can’t control that do have an effect on what I can do and things like that.
Uh, you know, having enough money or having the economic freedom to do whatever you want as well. Sure. So who did you sign? So next was Theodore Roosevelt that Teddy Roosevelt. Interesting, right, Teddy, old Teddy, I went for Teddy, so particularly in university, I guess I, I discovered a blog called Art of Manliness, I think at the time, especially having just graduated from an all boys boarding school, I was quite obsessed with the whole concept of masculinity and how it’s portrayed in everyday society.
And obviously this was an exploration of what it means to be a modern man while also still embracing the traditional role of masculinity in society. So I Theodore Roosevelt, featured quite heavily on this on this blog, which is now turned into a podcast and books and YouTube channel. It’s blown up quite a lot, but it’s similar against that. Eventually, Theodore Roosevelt, who was a politician, a conservationist, a naturalist, historian and a writer. So, again, just someone who has.
A brilliant understanding of very differing subjects, and I like seeing people achieve in. Achieve in a generous time, as opposed to being specifically amazing at one one thing, I also find that it’s quite interesting that he was a Republican but was the leader of the progressive movement of the early nineteen hundred. So, you know, as much as we talk shit about the Republicans a lot in US politics right now, they weren’t always that same way. And it’s just interesting to see how history changes throughout the years.
Didn’t didn’t he do quite a bit for national parks into the park because he was quite the postman?
Yes, that was the US Forest Service. He also established five of the first national parks in the states and the area of the United States to be placed under public protection totals, approximately two hundred and thirty million acres. Then one hundred thirty thousand square kilometers, which Trump is trying his very best to get rid of, despite the fact that he is lost, but. Yes, so Teddy Roosevelt generally ranked as one of the five best US presidents as well.
Yeah. So what people liked about him and what I liked about him is his versatility, his respect for law and his sincerity. He’s why he’s voted so highly. But you know what? This automatically misspoke and I think talked a lot about what he prioritizes. Health you exercise regularly with boxing, tennis, hiking, rowing, polo and horseback riding. And he also had a warrior persona placing warlike qualities high in the scale of values, of things like organization, self-control, self-discipline, you know, the pursuit of outdoors, respect for nature, but also standing his ground, having confidence in his abilities and, you know, not not always to his benefit.
Perhaps sometimes he made decisions that were a bit more aggressive than he should have been.
But, you know, no one’s perfect, but. This is this is known as his Wikipedia, and I think it’s it’s such a good, good summary that he believed that 19th century entrepreneurs had risked their fortunes on innovations and new businesses and that these capitalists had been rightly rewarded. By contrast, they believe that 20th century capitalism is little, but nonetheless very huge. And given the lack of risk, unjust economic rewards without a redistribution of wealth away from the upper class, Roosevelt feared that the country would turn to radicals of to revolution.
And a square deal domestic program had three main goals conservation of natural resources, control of corporations and consumer protection. So obviously cost to capitalism has read it, yeah, pretty much, and it’s interesting to think that this is this is like nineteen hundred nineteen hundred and five he was facing he was faced with the same sort of situation that we are now faced with again in 2020. You know, historians credit Roosevelt for changing the nation’s political system by permanently placing the presidency at center stage and making character as important as the issues.
And you know that. Obviously, it turned out poorly for us in the previous four years, but, you know, he’s a company, he built trust conservation. He brought that to the foreground. You know, he was he’s a hero to liberals and progressives, people say, for his proposals in 1987 and 1912 that presaged the modern welfare state, the New Deal era, including direct federal taxation, labor reforms and more direct democracy, while conservationists in my Roosevelt supporting the environment and selfless selflessness towards future generations on the national agenda.
And conservatives and nationalists respect his commitment to law and order, civic duty and military values, as well as his personality of individual self responsibility and heartedness. So just sounds like that’s the sort of leader we need to bring back again. You know, he’s just he’s the epitome of the perfect man, as it were. Um. You know, my strict self discipline, incredible control, and just a constant focus on development and and personal growth and, you know, his his secret ability was that he was just a normal guy.
He wasn’t particularly talented. Any one thing, except for the fact that he could energize himself to, like, ruthlessly pursue the different qualities that he had. So he was just go, go, go. You know, his his schedule started at A.M. where he you know, he had a strict schedule of walking with his wife through the gardens, but then he would still be entertaining guests at midnight, 1:00 a.m., he kept he kept journals and notebooks.
This is that that organization, self-discipline and control, I think is what I aspire to be. And the fact that he is the most well read of any US president in history and a voracious reader and did have shortcomings on his attitude towards race. Oh, absolutely. Which for the time. I’m sure, yeah, but this is the thing about mentors in general, mentors as well that I that I look up to is that you don’t have to you don’t have to aspire to be them.
Exactly. And you shouldn’t aspire to be another person. Exactly. You can cherry pick the personality traits, the qualities and the values of people you respect throughout history. I think that’s a that’s a reason why I choose people that want to live anymore in particular is that. Yeah, they can’t then disappoint you after the fact. So you go into this mentor mentee relationship knowing who they are as a full, complete person and the impact they’ve had on people around them and their history.
And then you can cherry pick their best qualities and ignore the ones that you don’t agree with, which leads well into the next one. Alexander the Great, obviously not someone I would aspire to be. And in general. He was aggressive, he didn’t love to take orders from especially his father, but he was, I guess what people don’t know, he was the king of the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedonia when he was only 20, after his father second was assassinated.
And by 30, he had created one of the largest empires of the ancient world, stretching from Greece to northern India. He was undefeated in battle and is widely considered one of history’s most successful military commanders. He led from the front, inspiring great feats of courage in his man. And I like that that concept of leading from the front rather than, you know, the typical aristocracy of the period was you lead from the back sitting on a horse and let other people die for you rather than risk it yourself.
And also, a lot of these days, also the fact that he was tutored by Aristotle until he was 16 years old, I mean, come on, that is possibly the best sort of upbringing any one person could possibly hope for. One of the greatest philosophers of history of all time. But his point was that he was arrogant and had an unbelievable amount of self-confidence, believing himself to be the true son of those, you know, which is similar to the story of Achilles, if anyone knows anything about ancient Trojan history.
Alexander himself was actually inspired by Homer’s Iliad, and Napoleon was likewise inspired by Alexander the Great. You know, it’s a it’s the main reason why Napoleon went to war so, so often is purely because Alexander the Great had. But. What I liked is that, you know, Alexander, he taught himself through observation, very much like Leonardo da Vinci did, and unlike other military commanders, he decided not to wipe out the cultures he colonized, but try to integrate them as well.
So we encouraged cross-cultural marriages. He encouraged trade and set up trade routes. And that’s probably one of the. The greatest and. Standing impacts he had on unwatered and on history. And he had a great desire for knowledge and a love of philosophy and was an avid reader as well as very similar to both DaVinci and and Teddy Roosevelt. So a lot of my pick, this is all about trying to get given the chance to understand the mindset of these incredible historical figures.
That’s a good list. That’s a good list and your point about picking people who are no longer with us, it goes on because some of my actually most of mine are. So I don’t think they’re going to let me down. No, I don’t think they will either.
But when they’re alive, I think we just put I think it’s easier to forget when someone’s alive that they are still human. And you you you idolize them before they’ve been given a chance to. Know to become realistic, I guess, yeah, so mine, I think quite obviously top of the list. Um, can you guess? I got to say, I want to see if you can get Uvalde Ahari on a Oh I can. Oh, so much Tomsky data comes from ski’s top, of course, and who I just think is.
Perhaps the greatest intellectual of all time, the father of modern day linguistics, is then spread out into looking at everything from politics to the way to society. So it’s just amazing to see in the bigger picture. Can any almost any material like any any question you pose is that he’s prepared for it. How do you get that depth of knowledge and retain it? It’s just amazing. He was outspoken, outspoken critic of the Vietnam War, things like that.
So it’d be interesting, I think I believe he got arrested for some of the civil disobedience that he was involved in as an advocate of civil disobedience, peaceful civil civil disobedience, and makes the point that all the rights that we enjoy today have come about from civil disobedience, the not just handed down benevolently, they are won by the people. Basically, he’s been alive for a long time. He was alive when Hitler was in power. So he’s seen many, many different manifestations of government and ideology, from fascism to neo liberal capitalism.
Yeah, it’s it’s amazing what is what is what he’s lived through. And just to find out a bit more about how he thinks, how he how he goes about. Going through like referential material and references and picking them apart and then keep in, not keeping that knowledge and then connecting the dots to the big picture thinking. So a lot of mine is to do with big picture thinking and again, not just specializing in one, you know, not just specialize in linguistics.
It’s about looking out and and things like that. So the second one is, you know, Harare again, because, like Saipan’s to me, was such a great book, so interested in the ability to see the big picture. His ability to see the big picture is amazing. And if no one’s read Saipan’s, I always recommend it to people. His other books are also fantastic about the future and the present day. I’d also be really keen to share his experience of coming out as a gay man in Israel and things like that.
I’m sure there’s a story that he talks about you not really knowing how he felt himself and algorithms and things that would have been able to tell him when he was 16 and whatever. So finding more about those aspects of his life will be super interesting and how he thinks the future is going to look like. Also, his views on the passing of meditation, because he’s a big advocate of meditation and attributes being able to write sapiens to that practice and how he goes about that practice.
Because I’ve tried meditation, I really have. And I do think it will be beneficial. But I thought so about it and I remember it. Sometimes I’ll try it and I’m like, write it down. Thinking I get frustrated. I think about things is one thing when really you should just go, Oh, I’m thinking about this and just move on.
But I think a lot from Seminar’s is waking up at. Yeah, because he talks and talks a lot about that as well. Yeah, so there is not so there’s that kind of experience that I have with trying to do my meditation. I know the experience of just waking up on the floor two hours later because of falling asleep, which just happened a couple of times. And so his because he goes to retreats, silent retreats, I think. And so that would be really interesting to find out just where he thinks his works in the future.
David Attenborough is the next one. I had an. Just because David Attenborough and all of this, all the stuff we’ve seen, we recently did an episode on his on his witness statement and talked about what a life he’s had, the adventures he’s been on, how he thinks things have changed over time. And, yeah, I think he’d be an amazing just to have my next one is Angela Davis, because I think she’d be really good. So, you know, her experience of like the civil rights movement and feminism, like the way that she sees it, because I’ve been super interested to learn more about feminism from the guests that we’ve had on things like that.
And Sarah and. Because I always ask that I always thought in my mind the question like is. A woman getting to the top of some sort of catalyst, that destructive, exploitative corporation is in a system designed by a man is not is not good. Is that a victory for feminism? Because I don’t know why some people would say it is, but I say it isn’t. I I don’t know that it is. And then Angela Davis talks about not the feminism of Hillary Clinton or feminism from below is what she talks about.
And this is more the kind of thing that I’m thinking about, because I think that, you know, she talks about the interconnectedness of Social Justice Powell, which is what I’ve alluded to, like, can we join, like people going for women’s rights and gay rights and environmental rights and things like that and all together, that’s the interconnectedness of these social justice models. And she says you can’t look at feminism without looking at race and we’re not looking at class.
And I agree with that. That’s that’s what I think. I think that. So I be keen to get her opinion on whether she thinks this is a success, because I’m not so sure that she would think the answer here about her involvement in the Panthers, Communist Party and all that kind of stuff, that the work that she’s done on the prison industrial complex in the US. You know, we talked about, you know, in the day from the police.
So it all kind of stuff. I think she would be a super, super interesting person to speak to. And then for my last guest at the dinner table as this person or maybe this person and these people, all that. So I had Karl Marx. Or Adam Smith, because I do I go with you. Yeah, but I’ve only got, like, you know, who do I invite these?
And I’d like to say that I want to hear them having a discussion, you know.
Yeah, well, Karl Marx borrows a lot from Adam Smith because although Smith was around before Karl Marx was about and I wonder if you invited Karl Marx to a dinner party, just like I told you so.
Well, interestingly, with Adam Smith, because people think tanks like the Adam Smith Institute and like know the free market, neo liberal kind of people and. They obviously hold him up to be like the father of modern day capitalism, but he talks about, you know, the concept of the invisible hand and the wealth of nations. And that’s technically, I think in the reason often with Chomsky, is technically an argument against neoliberal globalization, because he argues that if if, say, the people of Britain are in competition with.
It is manufactured abroad, the people will buy British as if guided by an invisible hand, but really that’s not transpired. People are buying the cheap stuff from China or other things like that. And you see things like jobs and being in the UK where they have higher wages and things like that and export abroad. Similarly, the the. The founder of this, Jim Ratcliffe, is called the Brexit to use a Brexit in order to and he said he’s going to make a new type of Land Rover defender.
He’s going to revamp that series of cars and they’re all going to be made in Wales. Was it promised and things like that. He’s now moved to Monaco and he’s confirmed that it’s going to be made in France. So it’s just crazy. So I’d like to invite Adam Smith actually to go. Is this what you envisaged? What do you think of this modern day was like? Because I actually think he was for the working man. He was.
He was. He was for. What benefit at the working man, whereas it’s been taken to the extreme and people only read the bits they want to read of Adam Smith, and then this is this is why because you just talk about isn’t it great that the baker pursues a for profit and we just got the right thing? He also says that just being specified in one thing leads him to the most telling that they can be. That’s what he says.
So I think he would be an interesting guy at the table and to see what he thinks about modern day capitalism and how it works. So those are the people on board. And then moving on from that, we talked about mentals. I think you said that they were the people that we had invited round the table, so. Thanks so much. Yeah. Ahrari, Angela Davis and also Richard Wolffe. Luckies is economic update. It was on YouTube as well.
Worth a watch critic of capitalism, of course, but it’s just it’s really good stuff. And so I encourage. And so another question that we had to. What do you say to humanity about a curious alien who is busy? What do you say to him about the human condition and humanity as a whole today?
Hmm, that’s a good question, um, what would the curious aliens see, what would he observe? Could go on and he wouldn’t understand because I don’t understand and I am a human with all the context and understanding of where we’ve come from.
Um. Yeah, I definitely find it’s a it’s a curious case of the human condition in that we say we value certain things and yet our behaviors don’t mimic what we say and what we what we think we value. Um, and this is in every part of our life, really, we’ve talked, I think, on a previous episode about how poor humans are at choosing loved ones, for example, and why algorithms do a better job, which I believe was a Match.com survey or Match.com research.
I think back in the day where people said that these are the things they are looking for and then they ended up choosing and and dating and marrying someone who didn’t match their list of requirements as it was. And, you know, we say we value the environment and we we value products made at home. But then external factors like. The importance of money and, you know, a lower price that weighs the things that we say we value, we say we prioritize family time, and yet we consistently and constantly decide to spend more and more time at work away from loved ones and family.
So the devices or plugged into devices. Exactly. And so I don’t I don’t know what I would say. I would say a confusing breed, that’s for sure. And. I definitely do not understand people. I don’t understand humanity or society, I don’t understand why more people don’t understand me. But then obviously I don’t understand them. So why would they understand me? Yeah, it’s the fun paradox we find ourselves in this, isn’t it? Yeah, it’s interesting because, you know, we have somehow evolved to become the most intelligent species on the planet.
And so I think that that I personally think that that kind of position that we find ourselves in means that we have a huge responsibility to be stewards and custodians of the planet rather than just exploiting it and being extractive all the time. Affections, you know, we talked about the work of EVOL in Harare, I think an alien would come down and be like, so you you destroy the planet that you are, that you need validation of your life for something called money that doesn’t really exist in objective reality, which is a story that’s it’s more pervasive.
Any religion is the greatest story of money because, you know, obviously people from different religions still believe in the concept of money and things like that. But it is just the story as as quite you know, it’s greatly illustrated in the sapience. And it’s just kind of insane, really, isn’t it, when you think about it, that we we are behaving in such a way that we destroy the foundations of life. It’s everything that we love, all the great things that we do create, like love, all music we have to think about.
And we are destroying the foundation and we know we are. And we still there anyway because the economy has to keep growing the economy, but yet the economy’s got to keep going. That’s the most important thing on the news that you ever hear about is the economy. Even though it’s a manmade fiction that doesn’t exist for the environment and climate change, climate breakdown does exist. So I think it was I think the alien would that we faced in. Two or three, just off the top of my head, like an existential crisis, really, like climate breakdown, nuclear proliferation as a mother, and especially when you are from a Trump or something in the White House and pandemics as well, you know.
Yeah. So, you know, these pandemics come from our relationship with nature and animals. Yet we just continue and we like animals. Talk about the vaccine. We’ve got this vaccine. We can continue as normal. This whole thing should be a wake up call to go. We can’t continue as normal. And we need to change our relationship fundamentally with nature on the way that we eat and the way that we treat each other in beings on this planet.
I think it would so Einstein, you know, when. The atomic bomb was dropped and stuff like that all the time, it was created by Einstein called for world government. Yeah, um, which which is something that I kind of do do you think is needed. But again, we have these stories, you know, nations and flags and stuff that don’t exist in objective reality. But I do feel like the alien would be like, so you’ve got these existential things that you need to deal with.
But they require cooperation on a global scale and you’re bickering about economies and stupid stuff like this, mental and invisible borders. Yeah. The other thing that’s always just like not always, I guess it’s been somewhat of a relatively recent realization in the last few years is that the only really the only way that humans have gotten to this place is to become the most intelligent and widespread species on the planet, is through cooperation and our ability to think long term.
So we are able to forgo short term desires. So, you know, back in the Hunter-Gatherer days when we first had the Industrial Revolution for Agricultural Revolution, for example, you know, we could think long term enough that we if if we kept some of this food and didn’t eat it. Now, when things didn’t go our way, we would have food to eat. And that is how we went from being Hunter-Gatherer to now being set up as the most prolific species in the planet.
Right. But that cooperation and long term thinking for some reason, you know, we kept expanding on it and evolution happened and we got bigger and bigger. And then all of a sudden it just stopped at our borders where we can only cooperate with our neighbors or our nation, for example. But we can’t we can’t conceive of a world government and we can’t think longer than a couple of years to say that, like, hey, this is a climate emergency.
Why are we not preparing for that? So where in history did it go from cooperation, long term thinking to then that breaking apart and not continuing on with that with. Yeah, because we can only cooperate if it’s, you know, if it doesn’t breach of sovereignty, which is a principle or it’s financially beneficial for both of us when we need to be doing things that are beneficial for everyone. Mm hmm. Again, you can’t get to that, sorry to say, but with capitalism or not, and maybe with a like a more planned economy and things like that that you could have in socialism, you would be able to say, well, yeah, these these are things that we need to do.
And, you know, it’s whether you want a dystopian future by The Matrix or whether you want a sort of Star Trek future where we come together as a planet and explore the universe. We explore inner and outer space together forever, which sounds great to me. That’s not so. That’s a quote from like Bill Hicks. He was a standup comedian from. In the late 80s, 90s, it would also probably be a great dinner guest, what at this point?
He’s got a good point about that. So the next question. If you could go back to a time in history, any time, when would you go back to and what? Hate these questions, I, I put a pretty face this answer, where do we go back to live in this time period or. Is it just like. It’s like a virtual game where I get to just like fly over and just explore without actually influencing anything. Good, you know, because I would love to go back to pretty much any of the ancient civilizations, I would love to explore, explore ancient Greece and Rome and Egypt, what China was like, Ghengis Khan like.
But I don’t actually want to be alive in that period unless for some reason, Julia say I could take a stab in the back by example unless I was rich, but if I could just explore to see what that time period was like. Oh, I’d love to go back to. I mean, that’s still no exact period there, is it? Know tens of thousands of years. Yeah, but I would I’d love to explore from a distance ancient civilizations and renaissance.
If I had to live, however, I think I’d actually prefer to go forward in time. That’s a curveball. That’s interesting. Yeah, I don’t have a good curveball. So you would like to see whether the predictions in David Umbers witness statement come true or whether we have a dystopian future or, you know, good Startrek future? Yeah, I, I just I can see that technology has improved our lives so very much. And I would like to explore just how far that possibility takes us by going forward a few hundred years.
The optimist in me would like to think it’s a nice peaceful. Yeah, incredible experience for all of us. A utopia, almost. I mean, I would hope that we reach that point, knowing human nature, it’s unlikely we ever truly reached a. An accurate representation of what Utopia is, I feel like even if we start exploring space, it’ll also be asked versus them because that’s human nature, right? Even if humans cooperate on a global scale, once we discover.
Another race, it’s unlikely we’re going to cooperate with them on a galaxy level, you know, there’s always going to be another level to explore. Yeah, but I’d like to think I’m optimistic in how the future turns out. Scared going back, that’s too much of a risk that you’d be born into poverty and that just isn’t a great living for anyone. Yeah, there is. So that’s a good point about living there or just being an observer, because I want to be a slave.
I think I’d just be an observer. I think I’ll go if I can go back and observe. I would even go back to. By the 1950s, 60s, because I think is a time of. A lot of civil disobedience would like it might be nice to go back and try and learn from what people did, what was most successful in the civil rights movement, the women’s rights movement and all that kind of good stuff.
Um, so either that or the late Cretaceous period, I thought Donna wanted me because when I was a kid, I wanted to be a paleontologist. I remember that vividly. But what I want to do, I think, is called Bob something, and he was a paleontologist that used to do all these dinosaur shows on the late Cretaceous, how’s my favorite dinosaurs? So T-Rex and private and all that sort of stuff? Well, again, that’s just something I just want to pop my head in and see them and be like no more because they had huge bugs and things like that.
It’s just like it’s like you just like lie in a holographic form and you can believe in things or if it’s like non-linear and you can just ride through that sort of thing. Yeah, I thought I might go to the late Cretaceous because I’m just a dinosaur. They have embraced me before and also just know how different they actually are from how we imagined.
Did we it. Right. We definitely like it. Did the kind of stuff. I think it would be great. Outlook outlook, big donors, big, big time. OK, so now we come on to weather what you think of like religion or the idea of God and all the big ones today. So what do what do you think about about that kind of thing? Oh, you think you believe in, like, a higher purpose because we haven’t really touched on religion in any of our podcasts yet.
So I feel like we could light touch on it here because it’s important to some people. And I do see the the I do see the social utility and certain, you know, certain aspects that you can get a great sense of community. It’s nice to sing songs together and all that kind of stuff. And it’s nice to feel like you have a purpose. I guess if you think about that is to say there’s a man in the sky looking at everything you do.
And if you’re good and you go to heaven or hell, which I think is pretty weird, but if not, I thought it makes you feel good or gives you some sort of. Safety or. They want to secure it, and that’s great, but I think that, you know, for a finite amount of time, so this is all the time that you get so that you should try and live to the fullest and try to learn as much as you can be the best that you can.
And that in itself is is quite precious, but it’s so short, you know. And. I you know, I’m not suppose I’m like. I say spiritual sense, but not in the sense of believing in anything. So when I see a mountain or you know what we saw, the grizzly bear is like, you feel like that something special, something great to witness and things like that. But I don’t personally believe in a higher being or anything like that.
I think religion’s fine. I think it’s fine as long as it doesn’t get in the way of politics, which it goes to show how society works. Sometimes church and and politicians who believe in and who deny climate change and things like that. But that’s dangerous when things happen. So when religious beliefs start to impose on people or become too extreme, then I sort of have a problem with that. And if you start killing people or victimizing people because of what you believe in this religion, let’s just.
Ridiculous Alvord. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with social utility. I. You can’t deny the. The impact that the church has had on humanity and human history throughout the millennia. I guess it’s been. It’s. Obviously, the church and by the church, I mean in any of the religions he has. Not being a great example of a societal structure, you know, they. They have done some. Conceivably terrible things throughout the history.
I think that the. The danger of religion is lies with dogma, and that’s when I dogma is principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as. What’s that word in country, Succasunna, in control? I call them controversial to so you can’t question their authority and you can’t question the truth of the matter. You just have to accept it, right? Yeah. So, yeah. And undeniable faith as it was like I think faith is dangerous on its own, but the social utility of religion I think is is um.
Possibly worthwhile. I think religion has definitely moved past its social utility now. I think it is more dangerous than it is helpful in modern day society. Obviously, you know, if you go way back in time when humans didn’t understand the way the world will act of it like.
It was good to have belief in a higher power to explain away the the unexplainable and about half that about Harverson sounds like it was it was nice to think that if you just behaved better, you know, you would be treated better. And, you know, there is some value in regardless of what you believe and if you act. As if you act as a better human, that’s obviously a positive for the world, it’s just that. Yeah, I think faith has definitely moved me beyond helpful now and that people use it to explain away shitty behavior.
And they use they use dogma, they use the dogma of religion to fight back, push back against what is now becoming scientific evidence as it was. Hmmm, I think I’m always surprised by how much money they seem to need. That’s a fact. They never pay taxes and all of that. I’ve definitely become a yeah. They’ve got all the money in the world, even though I think it’s it’s hard it’s hard for rich man to get into the kingdom of heaven for camels, possibly the eye of a needle.
So why are all these religions super? All these buildings all night and all the you know, where the pope lives, as I’m sure it’s just it just seems excessive. And out of there, it’s yeah, it’s my mom has always said you don’t have to be religious to be kind. And she didn’t you know, I find it I kind of find it personally weird, I guess, because I grew up this way. But when people grow up, you know, when people get christened just as a matter of course.
Like that. Yeah, yeah. My mom didn’t didn’t didn’t do that to me because she was like, you should choose for yourself what you wanted.
I mean, I got indoctrinated in Liverpool that I didn’t have a choice, not so severe. That was his fault. But she was like always, you should choose yourself and you don’t have to be you have to be involved in religion to be kinder. And that’s that’s just that’s just the thing that I take forward, I guess. Yeah. That’s that’s touching on religion in nineteen seventy seven right now. That’s a collection of music sounds and images from Earth into outer space.
What cultural artifacts would you choose in twenty twenty. You know, if there was light to communicate with life sort of thing, what would you, what would you say man. Lansberry and Lansberry. I know I said you’re a bit facetious, really, but I started a phone with Tick-Tock loaded onto it. Because that is the state of humanity, really, it kind of is. I mean, I was watching a video this morning of a tick influence.
She’s a geneticist trying to explain what’s in the vaccine, just to sort of reassure people and fight some of the misconceptions about the vaccine. Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, it’s easy to to put down. The new thing that the kids are doing is I ticked off, for example, you know, everyone saying, oh, fuck off, they don’t like it’s just that next thing but you know. That just makes it sound like a grumpy older generation, like you have to you have to embrace it, that change is coming.
We always get to choose a way that represents itself or presents itself. I mean, yeah, personally, I’m not allowed to talk, though. I just don’t feel the need to be on another thing. But I also don’t hate people who are on to talk. I can judge them for it, but I judge people for a lot of things. It’s the same with Instagram influences like I may hate them and judge them for it, but I can say that I can say the utility they bring to society actual social utility.
Once again, I agree that people get their information from people, people like influence influences. I think like that’s been the thing for all of human history. It’s just the people that are in that category now have have changed to make people focus much more on image, for example, and sell themselves out, maybe a little bit easier than some people in the past, but. It’s just a little bit more accessible, I guess, to be an influence of these days than it used to be, but you can’t fight against it and that’s the way society is developing.
It’s the only way. But in terms of to answer your question there, I’m not I’m not really sure. I think maybe. What represents the state of humanity today? The tougher it really is, I mean, I’ve always loved the image of the pale blue dot so that the first image of Earth from outer space I think is pretty special. I see it on the white. Everyone was sending it to May, so you to assume that I hate you.
We’re not giving it to 900 indeed. I’m a great guy, the UFA. I think. It sounds weird, but like, you know, the state of YouTube replays that they do every year. OK, here, I like I like the concept of that, and I think there was didn’t they do something in the middle of the pandemic this year? That was a documentary and that is putting together a documentary of one specific day of 20 years to a day in the life of thousands and thousands of people around the world.
I think something like that. But that just shows like our everyday, mundane things that actually mean something so much to each of us individually. OK, that’s a great honor. We’ll get we’ll find that out in terms of like songs and stuff. I don’t think any songs in particular were better than. Yeah. And then finally, the final question is, what would you say to your 16 year old younger self? James, what advice to. What I say to a 16 year old May.
Um. I know it’s tough. I didn’t like to listen to the people’s opinions when I was 16. It was all right. I I think I’d like to think that I was self-aware enough to listen to a future mother giving advice. I think a lot of my advice would probably come down to ways of building self-confidence and having faith in trusting the process. Things like don’t listen to the people who are telling you what to study at university just because.
And. Just because I was so unsure, I think at the time, I sort of put more value on the words of others than taking the time to really sit down and understand. I agree with that. It maybe just reassuring myself that. Twenty seven like I am now, and I still don’t have life figured out, but life much more figured out than I guess I was scared of at 16. Am I just. I was very risk adverse as a kid.
I think just letting myself know that sometimes it’s okay to take a few more risks and that what’s the worst that could possibly happen, you know, we grow. I grew up in. I have to recognize the privilege of the position I grew up in, not that I grew up in a very privileged position, but, you know, that was always the safety net of a loving family if I absolutely needed to. And you grow up in a.
A well developed country like Australia with the worst case scenario is not necessarily as bad as I probably feared it could be at 16. Yeah. Yeah, and then just to tell myself to take take more advantage of all the spare time I had at university that I feel like I just wasted. Actually, I probably would have gone to university, to be honest. Interesting. So that was a big win for a lot of what you cited, chimes with me as well.
Go back even younger, I would say learn a musical instrument because you were a great player. I know. I know. People say you can play whatever or whatever, but it’s hard. It’s harder to do it. And it’s something you’ve really got work up on our old and stuff. But it’s like if I was younger and just made to do it, I wish I was kind of made to do it in a way, even though at the time I would have something.
I think anything you need to do as a kid, you know, appreciate it.
So I just get involved more like, you know, I just say university like groups and stuff like that. Um, I think that’s that’s something that I would I would try and do a bit more of, um. So, yeah, I reckon that’s that’s it. Um. I thought it as my company just got off like a good diving. So, yeah, it’s tough, right, because. I go, oh, baby, I’m back.
I’ve got to balance this again. OK, I’ll do. And. Yes, it’s definitely tough. I mean, you know, you thought I mean, I was full of so much self-doubt at 16 and I feel like that has had such a profound impact on the way I live my life. But over the last five years in particular, I guess it’s it’s been a huge uphill struggle of trying to figure out what it is that’s important to me, trying to figure out who it is I actually do want to become and who I am as a person as opposed to who I was and letting that impact my day to day life.
But then also in saying that, like I said when I was reading up on. Some of these people, my my dinner guests, I remember that I had. I published a few of my journal entries from way back in the day from like 20 that to 2015 that I wrote back at the time, and it’s funny just to say, like I can see I can see inklings of myself questioning certain aspects of who I was and what I wanted from life.
And it’s funny that, you know, something I wrote in May 2015, you know, I was I wrote a journal article called It Was Glory. Now it’s where I talk about in the ancient world, glory on the battlefield was a key to being seen as having lived a successful life like Achilles and Hector Alexander, the Great Spartacus, Hercules, Julius Caesar and the 300 Spartans. You know, their stories echoing through eternity, inspiring countless retellings. But in today’s society, what can we say the best among us strive for money, fame, and I start questioning like what it is we’re looking for and what what someone would have to do in today’s society to to reach the same level of renown, I guess, as some of the ancient figures and if it’s even possible.
And, you know, that’s coming from someone who in 2015 wanted to be the CEO of an international multinational company. Purely, I think, as a response to the fact that I wasn’t the popular kid, I wasn’t the confident kid in high school. And I wanted to become the CEO of this huge, big company to prove the success and prove that I was worth it to other people. And, you know, the last five years moving away from that external locus of success to, you know, realizing that success comes from within.
And I think the final. The final paragraph that I talk about in this journal entry was who was to say that the heroes of old were the only ones worth remembering? People do amazing things every single day. The human experience is furthered by people from all aspects of life, some working alone, while others work in teams. And in my personal opinion, whilst I love to read about the heroes of the past, the incredible stories of heroism and courage in the face of fear which have echoes through eternity.
I like to think that perhaps our own legacies can instead be more humbly remembered through those lives. We have changed while living our own, so there will be some who stand out amongst us. And it’s a noble quest if done for honorable reasons. But if we were all to stand out from one another, then would anyone really be unique? The most important idea we should all be considering is how best can we live our lives to the benefit of others around us?
Let the fame follow the virtue. What were your lasting legacy? B How will you be remembered throughout the whole of time? That’s great, but that’s not such a nice place to kind of. Leave the podcast over there, I mean, yeah, have a think about that question, what were your lasting legacy be also like? Twenty fifteen year old a bloody spoke with his Jahrling.
How did you get back to that person? You should kept say, oh, yeah, I mean I have to go back through. I have at times also I called, I called it back behind the curious mind such and all that. But yeah I have, there are, there are some challenges, some like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen just like every now and again I write a bit more so it’s not really something I’m looking to, to pick out one of my resolutions, the twenty twenty one, which I guess we’ll probably talk more about in the probably our last podcast episode for twenty twenty I guess in a couple of weeks time.
Yeah. And I just have a nose. I guess we’ll probably move to publishing episodes now once every two weeks or so just because we’ve got lots on in life and we want to take more time to think and prepare I think for every episode rather than having to to rush through some.
Yeah, well, I think like going back to what you wrote in that in that journal entry at the end, I think that that is kind of like what you are doing with the podcast as well. That chimes, which with why we sell the podcast. So that’s great.
And if only I’d realised in twenty fifteen you could have been doing this right now, it would be like glorious past that. I have a million followers right now. Yeah, exactly. Brilliant. So that’s the advice I give to my six year old self start the podcast. I agree with that as well. And I think that that you know what you said, this is a nice place to to to end the podcast. People think about that is think about what is important, I guess, in life and what kind of impact you want to have.
We hope you enjoyed this episode a little bit more like how it’s a little more cool and hopefully get and I was a little bit more know how we think, you know, getting with us by email items to new followers on social media, is that something you like? And subscribe on YouTube and check us out on Spotify as well.
And and so next time, Aphrodite, before Christmas, happy, merry Christmas and happy holidays. Very good luck with lock down or second left out of the battle in Australia every year about the rules, figuring out a way to look at all of this, all of the spectrum. And until that time, I find.